Crunching TL4.........*NOW WITH POSSIBLE BETTER SYNCHRO RINGS!!

Discussion in 'Engine, Gearbox, Exhaust and Air Intake' started by Northloopcup, Sep 2, 2018.

  1. Northloopcup

    Northloopcup Gold Member

    Messages:
    552
    Car:
    AG 200 FF
    Consider this a heads up folks! If your box is crunching into 3rd, or 4th, or even both, DON’T LEAVE IT TOO LONG BEFORE YOU GET IT SORTED! The following pictures, I hope will convince you that it’s not worth running the risk.

    Here you can see the debris that’s accumulated on to the magnet. I recognise these bits, but they’re not where they should be........... See the brass bits on the right of the picture? They’re the snapped selector fork for 3rd & 4th gear...........
    A5F7F5EF-DD17-4D00-A023-3833268948AA.jpeg
    9733015B-280E-41F2-85D9-2E7BD363DDEA.jpeg In the image up above you can see a rectangular gap? That’s where some of that debris has come from. I’ll show you shortly what should’ve been in there, but the reason they’ve come out is because the internals of the synchro ring on 3rd and 4th gear has been destroyed. This means the synchro ring sits closer to the gear, increases the gap and the rest, as they say is history.
    The original owner of this box continued to hammer it home through the gears and has successfully damaged the dog teeth on 3rd & 4th gear, and the selector hub - I’ve never seen this on a TL4, and I’ve rebuilt a good number now.

    And here’s what should be in the rectangular space and how it should look!! A5ACD0C8-1F6C-4CC0-AD6F-07C6C880110C.jpeg

    Keep vigilant and sensible folks!!
     
    tombate911, peter, Sean197 and 4 others like this.

  2. Legend@wheels

    Legend@wheels Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,364
    Car:
    Clio 200
    Cheers mate

    Sent from my RNE-L21 using Tapatalk
     
    Northloopcup likes this.
  3. LOCKE

    LOCKE Paid Member

    Messages:
    2,481
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Car:
    RB 182 Cup/LY 197 R27
    You obviously have a lot of experience of rebuilding these gearboxes so if your gearbox is fine what would be your advice of helping it stay that way. How often would you suggest changing oil and what oil to you recommend? Driving tips?
     
  4. Northloopcup

    Northloopcup Gold Member

    Messages:
    552
    Car:
    AG 200 FF
    All you can do to protect the box is use good quality gl4 rated oil, change it often if you’re hammering it, nice and smooth gearchanges combined with rev matching on downshifts and that’s about as much as you can do really.
    Oil wise I recommend (and run in my own box) redline mtl. Track work redline mt90.
     
    LOCKE, Foxspeed and peter like this.
  5. tcw

    tcw Paid Member

    Messages:
    173
    Location:
    Chelmsford
    Car:
    Clio 197
    @Northloopcup if one was to undertake the rebuild themselves, what kind of prices would parts be? Are there any particular places better than others to source parts?
     
  6. Northloopcup

    Northloopcup Gold Member

    Messages:
    552
    Car:
    AG 200 FF
    That’s over £500 in parts to fix in the pics up above. I get everything from Renault Wolverhampton mate. I have an account so get discounts on all the items.
     
  7. Northloopcup

    Northloopcup Gold Member

    Messages:
    552
    Car:
    AG 200 FF
  8. LOCKE

    LOCKE Paid Member

    Messages:
    2,481
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Car:
    RB 182 Cup/LY 197 R27
    Much appreciated mate.
     
    Northloopcup likes this.
  9. tombate911

    tombate911 Paid Member

    Messages:
    901
    Car:
    2010 Clio RS200
    Great work as always Mark!
     
  10. Northloopcup

    Northloopcup Gold Member

    Messages:
    552
    Car:
    AG 200 FF
    I may have done some even greater work now.......see below!!
     
  11. Northloopcup

    Northloopcup Gold Member

    Messages:
    552
    Car:
    AG 200 FF
    Right, if someone has a crunchy tl4 and is willing to be part of a little experiment, I may have found a better synchro ring for 3rd and 4th gear!!!

    Because I’m a saddo, I look at other items found in other gearboxes. I stumbled across a synchro ring that is 99% identical to the tl4 3rd/4th gear synchro. I need to carry out a few measurements and tests on a dead shaft I’ve got at home first, but initial glances are favourable.

    Here’s the deal, you pay me for my labour and I’ll supply the synchro rings. If it’s no better than the Renault steel/fibre synchro ring setup, I’ll supply the new synchro rings and strip/rebuild your box FOC.

    IF it does work I can buy these rings in bulk to secure a better price too, but if there was enough interest to warrant it, I could get the Renault 3rd/4th synchros in the same way.

    Anyone feeling brave?
     
    m.a.c and Big Ben like this.
  12. tombate911

    tombate911 Paid Member

    Messages:
    901
    Car:
    2010 Clio RS200
    I’d have been up for that but now the clio has gone and the BMW box is silky smooth even after 140k, best of luck with it, hope it works out!
     
    Northloopcup likes this.
  13. Northloopcup

    Northloopcup Gold Member

    Messages:
    552
    Car:
    AG 200 FF
    I’ll be starting rebuilding the bmw boxes soon too mate! Lol! They suffer with some synchro issues on 2nd gear and reverse. The lads at work have loads in stock with these issues, and have asked me to rebuild them.
     
  14. tombate911

    tombate911 Paid Member

    Messages:
    901
    Car:
    2010 Clio RS200
    I’ll keep that in mind. Going to remove it at some point and do the detent springs/bushes as 5th’s a little tight every now and then but it’s not a Piority job as it’s a fair bit of work to remove it just to do that, the clutch and flywheel has already been done. Will probably need input shaft bearing at some point too as you can hear it.
     
    Big Ben and Northloopcup like this.
  15. FatRS

    FatRS Paid Member

    Messages:
    60
    Do you have capabilities to remove and refit or that up to the owner?
     
  16. Northloopcup

    Northloopcup Gold Member

    Messages:
    552
    Car:
    AG 200 FF
    Afraid not mate. Have capabilities, but no time or facilities.
     

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