Front subframe removal question

[Cliosport-carl]

I have had a quick look around the forum and online and couldn't see anything i am about to drop the subframe and the question is can i take the steering rack off without taking the rack off? If that makes sense. Is there enough room to get the bolts out and leave the rack where it is when the subframe comes out ?? or do i need to take track rods out and get the uj undone ??

 

[Siliconsteve]

If you don't need to disconnect the rack don't. The column has some important stuff lurking In there and you will have a big bill if you're not careful.

 

[tombate911]

Leave the rack in place. Upbolt t from the subframe and leave the rack hanging in position. Done these a few times now for various reasons.

 

[Cliosport-carl]

No problem that's what I I wanted to know if it can be done then it will be

 

[krash67]

Problem of leaving the rack in place is getting to all the bolts on the sub frame, however i've not persevered down this route . I went by splitting the column/steering rack knuckle inside the foot well. All you have to do is ensure you make some reference markings, you shouldnt be to far off as the input shaft on the rack as a flat and as long as you don't swing on the steering wheel in the meantime.

 

[Cliosport-carl]

Problem of leaving the rack in place is getting to all the bolts on the sub frame, however i've not persevered down this route . I went by splitting the column/steering rack knuckle inside the foot well. All you have to do is ensure you make some reference markings, you shouldnt be to far off as the input shaft on the rack as a flat and as long as you don't swing on the steering wheel in the meantime.

i am looking at starting this tomorrow

the long and short of it is im looking to get the anti rotation links and the arb links off and the wishbone to hub then undo the engine torque mount then the brace with 4 bolts off and out of the way and then go about the subframe bolts and the ones under the chassis leg lower it untill it stops then undo the steering rack and get it all out.. i do need to drop the suspension and top mounts down to get the top mounts in but this can all be done when messing around down there tbf @krash67 might be worth just taking the subframe down if thetrack rod end bolts are getting undone anyway..

 

[turkie172]

What exactly are you trying to do work wise, the above is not making much sense to me is it the top mounts your trying to change that is the mount and bearing on top of the shocks?

 

[Cliosport-carl]

What exactly are you trying to do work wise, the above is not making much sense to me is it the top mounts your trying to change that is the mount and bearing on top of the shocks?

Im looking to get the subframe out as i need to do the front wishbone bushes and the ARB bushes whalst the subframe is out of the way i will take the shocks out to fit the top mounts..

the only question i was really looking at was if i needed to take the steering rack out or leave it in.

 

[Daverb]

Just drop the back down a bit, undo the bolts for the rack and leave it.

 

[turkie172]

You don't need to drop the sub frame for that I took the shock and hub assembly out as one disconnected the track rod end, the ball joint at the end of the lower arm that joins to the hub assembly ABS sensor and brake pipe bracket the only difficulty was sliding the drive shaft end trough to allow fully remove the assembly the driver side I got a cheap hydraulic press tool but the passanger side I push through with my thumb. To take the arm off I think strap from slam upper support to hold the rad assembly and remove the rad support to get at the front bolt of the arm all can be done without going fully under the car.

 

[krash67]

you need of fully drop the subframe to change the ARB bushes, as the ARB mounts have one bolt and the other side has a lip that goes into the subframe, which you can only remove out when the mount is rotated backwards.
At the end of the end of the day is what works for you, I've just dropped my subframe tonight (for the 4th time!) and did at the speed of F1 pit stop!
Oh by the way you don't need to remove the brace that goes between the wishbone mounts only the back side one.

 

[Northloopcup]

you need of fully drop the subframe to change the ARB bushes, as the ARB mounts have one bolt and the other side has a lip that goes into the subframe, which you can only remove out when the mount is rotated backwards.
At the end of the end of the day is what works for you, I've just dropped my subframe tonight (for the 4th time!) and did at the speed of F1 pit stop!
Oh by the way you don't need to remove the brace that goes between the wishbone mounts only the back side one.

What sort of a job is it to do the manifold? Does the subframe need dropping all the way? Or can it be pulled out by just dropping the subframe slightly?

 

[turkie172]

OK I've never changed the ARB bushes in a 197 yet and I get what your saying the official manual says drop the frame so what do you do with the steering rack when you drop the sub frame disconnect it or unbolt it from the sub frame beforehand and leave it connected.



I do think this sub frame thing is the biggest How to missing from the forum I must admit I'm not all that comfortable without seeing it done first. But looking at the pic above surely if the ARB is disconnected from the drop links by pushing it backwards as long as space allows at about 45 Deg. or less the ARB bracket should be able to be removed but there's thinking and doing and I guess at the moment I'm only thinking.

 

[Cliosport-carl]

OK I've never changed the ARB bushes in a 197 yet and I get what your saying the official manual says drop the frame so what do you do with the steering rack when you drop the sub frame disconnect it or unbolt it from the sub frame beforehand and leave it connected.

View attachment 17640

I do think this sub frame thing is the biggest How to missing from the forum I must admit I'm not all that comfortable without seeing it done first. But looking at the pic above surely if the ARB is disconnected from the drop links by pushing it backwards as long as space allows at about 45 Deg. or less the ARB bracket should be able to be removed but there's thinking and doing and I guess at the moment I'm only thinking.

That arb Bush you have shown I believe is wrong there are 2 different types but never the less what your saying is I need to do a pic heavy removal guide ??

 

[turkie172]

Well I understand the cup has the smaller bush that sits on top of a block to hold The ARB at the same height but they are held by the same bracket therefore can be removed the same way but yes I think everyone could benefit from some pictures or video of the procedure don't you think. We should push the admins for a monthly prize/recognition for new How To items in order to motivate users to submit them like discount off subscription etc.

 

[Cliosport-carl]

It's out now and I have got lots of pictures to start a guide for everybody

 

[Cliosport-carl]

Well I understand the cup has the smaller bush that sits on top of a block to hold The ARB at the same height but they are held by the same bracket therefore can be removed the same way but yes I think everyone could benefit from some pictures or video of the procedure don't you think. We should push the admins for a monthly prize/recognition for new How To items in order to motivate users to submit them like discount off subscription etc.

I like that idea

 

[turkie172]

Your the man well done hope everything went back together ok. The first job I did on my 197 was the lower driver ball joint, all drop/rotation links fix broken spring drivers side changed both and two new front shocks along with shock top mounts and there bearings. Still got some shake on the front when cornering on uneven surfaces so I'm going to change inner and outer trackrods when weather permits.

 

[krash67]

OK I've never changed the ARB bushes in a 197 yet and I get what your saying the official manual says drop the frame so what do you do with the steering rack when you drop the sub frame disconnect it or unbolt it from the sub frame beforehand and leave it connected.

View attachment 17640

I do think this sub frame thing is the biggest How to missing from the forum I must admit I'm not all that comfortable without seeing it done first. But looking at the pic above surely if the ARB is disconnected from the drop links by pushing it backwards as long as space allows at about 45 Deg. or less the ARB bracket should be able to be removed but there's thinking and doing and I guess at the moment I'm only thinking.

Because of the rotation of the ARB bush holder has to do to remove the lip out the subframe, the ARB needs to go backwards (towards the bulkhead) and such fowls at numerous places.

 

[krash67]

What sort of a job is it to do the manifold? Does the subframe need dropping all the way? Or can it be pulled out by just dropping the subframe slightly?

Yes you can drop it off all the bolts and leave it suspended on a jack, you have no need to disconnect the steering column, just be careful dont leave it suspended with too much weight from the subframe.
If doing this way you will have to drop the top mount bolts off, these are easier than trying to prize the strut out the hub carrier