Let down by garage

[jimfacebinface]

Hi all,

Haven't posted much since I returned to the forum with a new Clio after a brief stint in a Fiesta ST but I've come to a bit of a catch 22 and I'm after a bit of friendly forum advice.

I bought a 61 plate Racing Blue 200 around 4 months ago. Immaculate, full Renault/renown-specialist service history, Recaros, Cup Chassis and I was over the moon.

A month or so ago, my partner was on her usual commute to work in it and made an almighty clatter and then stopped dead. Lucky she wasn't going any quicker or it could have ended very differently.

It turns out that something had caused the aux belt to shred and wrap itself in the cambelt and I guess you can all figure out what happened then. It was first thought that a tensioner had failed and shredded the aux belt but during further inspection and whilst removing the undertray, a stray (and very heavily worn down) screwdriver fell out on to the workshop floor. Shocker right?

It's obvious that the screwdriver is the cause of the failure do to the heavily worn down head. It looks as though it has been rolling about on the undertray and then finally found its way across under the aux belt. The screwdriver is a "Snap On" from their "Blue Point" range according to two independent mechanics despite all markings being worn away. Whatever it is, it's definitely not mine so as you can imagine, I'm not too chuffed.

Over the last month, I've amicably battled with the dealer to get this sorted. It's already cost me recover and initial inspection plus storage and I'm not in a rush to part with any more money. I have even tried to bargain with paying for parts due to be changed in the cambelt service (belts, tensioners etc) and they pay for consequential damage but no, they won't have any of it.

Their argument is that anyone could have worked on it since it left them and I can't prove that its theirs/was their during their possession.

My argument is that the bonnet hasn't even lifted since I drove it away from them so there's no possible way a screwdriver could have found its way in there.

I'm a bit stuck now and gutted to say the least. Taking legal advice costs money that may lead to court which may then lead to a loss if it can't be proved, thus costing me a fortune on top of repairs. Is it worth a shot if my insurance can cover legal fees if I get them involved?

Is there anyway of proving it's not me that's caused it, thus putting the onus on them to prove it wasn't there at point of sale?

Do I pay a repair bill and chase them for it?

It's a shame as I would have returned to them as a future customer for all servicing, modifications, remaps etc should this have been resolved quickly. I know that sometimes s**t happens and someone just needs to own up to it and then we can move on.

What do you guys think? Any help greatly appreciated.

James

 

[Sean197]

Contact citizens advice, and also look into a solicitor who will do a first appointment free, there are plenty about.
If it happened 3-months after purchase, didn't you have some kind of warranty?

 

[Dystant]

It's so horrible when things like this come down to their word against yours, but unfortunately I guess that's what it comes down to.

My thoughts; surely they must have some sort of inventory list for tools used in their garage, and possibly have a procedure for reporting lost items/checking stock? There must be some sort of way to verify that they are missing the piece that you've ended up with that caused the damage?

 

[Adam_C]

I would start here - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/

Sounds like your in a tricky and not a nice situation but i would start by getting the ball rolling with legal advice

 

[Jimmy]

Very sorry to hear about your woes, it's a horrible thing to have happen to you.

As already said, I think legal advice is the only way forward really. You can continue to argue your point with them yourself, however it doesn't really have any weight behind it - they will continue to deny, because you don't have proof.

A legal professional may well be able to uncover some discrepancies in the garage's work procedures etc, however perhaps just the presence of a legal letter from a law firm could be enough to convince the garage that they need to start playing ball.

It will likely cost you money for legal help, however I imagine a reputable solicitor will be able to give you an indication as to how successful you are likely to be if you pursue it - ask for an honest appraisal before making any commitments.

 

[Big Ben]

That sucks buddy. Hope you get it all sorted.

 

[sevenfourate]

My goodness - what a terrible situation. A shambles infact !

First - legal advice.

Second - Name and shame them on any site or anywhere anyone will listen. Let the World know about their morals and ethics !!!

GOOD LUCK.

 

[LOCKE]

Some incompetent mechanic has caused this and as said this could have been a lot worse. Tricky one this, their word against yours. Good luck.

 

[montana]

Looking at the other side of things...

You have had the car 4 months and not lifted the bonnet? Really? Not even to check oil? - Either way it doesnt look good. If the screwdriver is worn down with no identifiable markings then you will never trace it back to the owner - is the garage going to admit they have this particular screwdriver missing? Probably not.
If you have lifted the bonnet then they could argue it was yours (given its non identifiable).

Have the belts been done ? If not they are due (including the aux belt) ? If they were due , then the onus is on you (forget the screwdriver).

How big was the screwdriver? Was it reasonable that it could have fouled the aux belt area (which is behind a cover), I would suggest not, although may be wrong.

I hope you dont take my post in a negative light - these are the questions that you would expect to be asked if you go down the legal route. Sounds like there could be many factors in play on both sides , which may mean it could go either way down the legal route.

I know it a royal PITA having to deal with this mess, if it doesnt go in your favour the legal route may well leave you with legal fees plus a mullered engine to shell out for.

 

[jimfacebinface]

Morning all,

Thank you for the responses.

I'd contacted Citizens Advice earlier this week and just awaiting a response. As said, a legal battle might not favour me just yet as at the moment not a lot can be proved. I'll see what comes of that first.

I'd prefer not to delve into naming and shaming though as much as I'd love to! I'm sure it could backfire at some point by way of deformation of character if I can't prove it. Plus, I'm hoping for their sake and for the sake of future customers my situation is a total one-off.

The failure happened after 2 months of ownership. The car wasn't used everyday and hadn't done many miles since it left them.

The belts had not been done, but are due/were due in around 10K miles or next year. I know coming from a 197 that this is a crucial point in a Clio's life and I specifically asked for the condition of the belts prior to sale. That said, I have offered to pay for parts that I was due to change within the next year (cambelt, aux belt, tensioners, water pump) but I should not be expected to pay for consequential damage. It wasn't met with a good response.

The screwdriver is a pretty reasonable size, probably 8" length. It's clear it is a Snap-On Blue Point now that it has been shown to me as the other colour markings match that range. It is confirmed with an initial damage report that the tool has caused the failure. I believe the belt/pulley is not completely covered, as before the tool was discovered, the original garage said it is possible for foreign objects to find their way into the belts.

I'll keep everyone updated with how this goes, should the information be useful to anyone in the future.

 

[Yiannis197]

This might sound stupid but how much a forensic analysis costs these days?

Sorry to hear about your troubles mate. If the screwdriver was yours you would obviously remove it straight away. Is there a way to find out whether that tool was theirs?

 

[DS197]

This might sound stupid but how much a forensic analysis costs these days?

Sorry to hear about your troubles mate. If the screwdriver was yours you would obviously remove it straight away. Is there a way to find out whether that tool was theirs?

Surely it's a civil matter and none of the mechanics are legally obliged to provide DNA to compare against

 

[LOCKE]

How can you loose a 8 inch screwdriver! Bloody cowboys.

 

[Steve Murr]

Hi -

Sorry to say you have no chance here with the garage - theres no evidence to prove its there fault-
If its a 2/3 owner car theres loss of any traceability -
The only way there would be any cause for proof would be if every peice of work on the car had been done by them -

Its a real unlucky scenario, if your whole engine is gone then its around £2000 to replace
BTW renparts do a replacement engine offer fitted although not sure where they get them from -
S

 

[Foxspeed]

like any car that is sold it should be checked by the selling garage and sold fit for purpose and have some sort of warranty!

 

[jasonlovesfrench]

Morning all,

Thank you for the responses.

I'd contacted Citizens Advice earlier this week and just awaiting a response. As said, a legal battle might not favour me just yet as at the moment not a lot can be proved. I'll see what comes of that first.

I'd prefer not to delve into naming and shaming though as much as I'd love to! I'm sure it could backfire at some point by way of deformation of character if I can't prove it. Plus, I'm hoping for their sake and for the sake of future customers my situation is a total one-off.

The failure happened after 2 months of ownership. The car wasn't used everyday and hadn't done many miles since it left them.

The belts had not been done, but are due/were due in around 10K miles or next year. I know coming from a 197 that this is a crucial point in a Clio's life and I specifically asked for the condition of the belts prior to sale. That said, I have offered to pay for parts that I was due to change within the next year (cambelt, aux belt, tensioners, water pump) but I should not be expected to pay for consequential damage. It wasn't met with a good response.

The screwdriver is a pretty reasonable size, probably 8" length. It's clear it is a Snap-On Blue Point now that it has been shown to me as the other colour markings match that range. It is confirmed with an initial damage report that the tool has caused the failure. I believe the belt/pulley is not completely covered, as before the tool was discovered, the original garage said it is possible for foreign objects to find their way into the belts.

I'll keep everyone updated with how this goes, should the information be useful to anyone in the future.

Do the dealer/garage in question use Snap on blue point?

 

[turkie172]

So what is the actual damage on the engine has the timing slipped and damaged the head or did it just stall the engine. As far as blame goes I would save stress and time and give up on that as it has been 4 months and you need to find out what the damage is and if you played it smart you could have contacted the specialist and said you found a snap on screwdriver in the engine bay and did the mechanic want it back when they said yes then drop the bomb on them. Or put the screwdriver back in and take it to the specialist and let them discover it as if it had just happened. As far as naming and shaming the specialist be carful you could get into trouble for slander ( no proof either way) and have 2 bills to pay. Get it to someone you could be lucky and a new aux belt could get it running or lift the head and check it or put a scope in the spark plug holes and see if the pistons are marked or damaged first. It'll be a timing belt aux belt etc job anyway or sell it on as is and let someone else take the chance if you don't want the stress of an open ended bill.

 

[jimfacebinface]

I understand it's a really unlucky situation. As said, with it having services as several different garages, proving where the tool came from is super tricky and probably not worth pursuing.

I haven't had the car thoroughly inspected as yet, only as far as taking the cam cover off and the plastic panels when it was recovered. The car did continue to run when it happened (in the outside lane of a dual carriageway) and just about got to the hard shoulder before it cut out completely. My other half was driving so I'm not exactly sure what noises it made but she said it was horrendous.

I would never name and shame, as tempting as it might be, but I'd still have faith in them as a garage if they would meet me halfway. In my opinion, it is unlikely that the tool is theirs, and I'm not sure it would have been spotted on a pre-sale check as it was sat beneath the engine on the undertray, but, as the dealer that sold the car, they must have an obligation to come to an agreement to get this sorted. It's bad luck on both parts.

As I've said, I've tried to meet them halfway and cover cost of parts needed and even negotiate a labour charge but they have point blank said no, they won't contribute a penny. The car came with the usual warranty that all dealers seem to give out since the new law came in which they have offered to "work them to pay out". Basically saying we can defraud the warranty company as their terms state they do not pay out for belts or damage caused by foreign objects. I don't want a part in that understandably.

The car is subject to finance so we had an obligation to tell them about the whole thing, so they've taken it over from us now. I'll keep posting updates as and when.

Cheers!

James

 

[Adam_C]

Sounds like you are making the right step forwards!

Was a good idea to get the finance company involved as they will also be on side to help things get sorted.

Hope all goes ok.

 

[Mattb_197]

Hopefully your finance company will put a bit of pressure on too. Sounds like a bad situation to be in, since they've point blank refused to admit liability the onus is on you to prove they were negligent and it was their screwdriver that caused the problem. Someone, somewhere knows they are missing that screwdriver but if it's them you can bet they won't just admit it without a fight which is quite sad. So much for honesty and admitting your mistakes! Hopefully you'll get somewhere with it but be prepared for the long haul as I can't see them changing their stance easily.