The ever elusive knock

[Jamesd1263]

Guys I’ve been doing a bit of reading in the famous nsf knock. Mine has it, today the track rod end, the track rod axle joint, and the bottom ball joints were replaced, and somehow the knock as got worse. What else normally goes on these?

 

[turkie172]

I'm in the same boat but I am about to change the lower arm and on checking I can see the inner plastic guard has some rub marks (clean bits) that the upper head of the drop link attached to the shock is touching it during travel that means the top of the shock is bolted in incorrectly positioned or not centre maybe not tight enough or the bushes on the bottom arm are allowing too much movement I also found that there was noise coming from the brake pipes that had become unclipped underneath parallel to the cat/middle box and slapping on the floor from underneath any other noise like exhaust rasping check the heat shielding all along the exhaust deep standing water tends to fold it in against the exhaust pipework especially where the joint would be before the back box if it has been replaced. Just waiting for dry day with daylight and some time. To date new shock, top bearing and mount, inner and outer track rod ends and checked for play in the steering rack during the change. All that's left is anti roll bar bushings and lower arms the hub upper and lower ball joints have no play. Failing that I will have to check all sub frame bolts the gearbox mount was changed in the last year and exhaust is totally standard except one flexi mesh that's going but no blowing out yet.

 

[tombate911]

Rotation links or the swivel hubs top and bottom.
Swivel hub is the only things I've got left to replace on mine now.

 

[Jamesd1263]

I'm in the same boat but I am about to change the lower arm and on checking I can see the inner plastic guard has some rub marks (clean bits) that the upper head of the drop link attached to the shock is touching it during travel that means the top of the shock is bolted in incorrectly positioned or not centre maybe not tight enough or the bushes on the bottom arm are allowing too much movement I also found that there was noise coming from the brake pipes that had become unclipped underneath parallel to the cat/middle box and slapping on the floor from underneath any other noise like exhaust rasping check the heat shielding all along the exhaust deep standing water tends to fold it in against the exhaust pipework especially where the joint would be before the back box if it has been replaced. Just waiting for dry day with daylight and some time. To date new shock, top bearing and mount, inner and outer track rod ends and checked for play in the steering rack during the change. All that's left is anti roll bar bushings and lower arms the hub upper and lower ball joints have no play. Failing that I will have to check all sub frame bolts the gearbox mount was changed in the last year and exhaust is totally standard except one flexi mesh that's going but no blowing out yet.
View attachment 118167

Cheers dude, that’s quite helpful. Today I done a few bits both the track rods, axle joint and plastic bush, nsf lower swivel joint, put it all back together, wobbles the wheels and there was no play there at all (4 post ramp) went and had the wheels aligned, had it up on their flat ramp, still no noises or movement. But as soon as I’m driving even over the smallest bumps, it’s knocking away

 

[turkie172]

If your noise is when pulling away its the rubber in the top shock mount split and the two metal plates the cup the top of the shock bolts through is knocking on the metal piece that bolts the mount to the car body to see it the weight has to be on the wheels for the split to show up. Alignment will not show up a lot of play problems its better with care to put pressure on suspension parts a new track rod end can hide a bad anti rotation link as it holds it in the opposite way.



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[turkie172]

 

[Jamesd1263]

Yeah good point, it doesn’t always happen when pulling away, but I can get it to happen, if I get the biting point right on the clutch, then I can engage and disengage and make it do it if you know what I mean

 

[turkie172]

with me creeping and pulling away in traffic it made the clunk a ball joint can do the same but is sounds more like a dry hinge when turning the steering wheel but if you jack the car up looking at the front wheel pull it at the bottom 6 o'clock position towards you if it moves the bottom ball joint has gone and if you turn into a corner and the car seems to turn in again then it's like a pencil in a empty jam jar. I narrowed it down to the top mount on the passenger side by standing on the passenger door sill and pushing all my weight up and down to rock the car you could hear the creak and another person with their ear as close as possible to the top of the shock confirmed exactly were the noise was coming from. I've changed the passenger lower arm for a used one that I have, found the forward ball joint quite free and the back bushing was twisted and with a little prying I could get a knock inside the slot in the sub frame so a test drive to the chip shop will see if the knock has been fixed or at least not as much.

 

[Jamesd1263]

There’s no movement in either wheel if I try and wobble it. Literally nothing, there was slight play yesterday until we replaced all the parts we did

 

[turkie172]

My knock is now fixed the lower arm replacement has fixed it yours might be gearbox mount or one of the engine mounts grab the engine and give it good push and pull then left and right you might hear the noise or feel the bump. It can be so many things like the toyo manifold knocking on the sub frame if when reaching the bite point then over an inspection pit someone underneath might be able to zero in on the source. I hand a rattle from the engine bay at the start somewhere around the speedo/clocks location it turned out to be the upper torque engine mount the metal face holding in the rubber was loose a cable tie fixed it I changed it anyway to help preserve the flexi's along with the lower engine mount and gearbox mount.

 

[Jamesd1263]

Running solid stabiliser mount, solid dogbone mount there’s no play in the engine. I think I it may have to be shock or mount

 

[turkie172]

looks like your going to jump up and down on the door sill then.

 

[Jamesd1263]

Right, just tried that and nothing

 

[turkie172]

sounds like your car is heavily modified I bet it's lowered and non factory springs air induction etc. not my cup of tea but not hated by the way if it's not a track car I cant understand solid mounting the engine by doing that you stress the other parts of the car that normally never needs checked this is not a forum diagnostic as we can't explain sounds and feel very well you need to take it to a specialist who knows what the normal parts of the 197 /200 car feel and sound like guaranteed they will zero in on it right away that's why even taking a car to a specialist may sound expensive but the time saved spotting the problem and less expensive repair methods than dealers that don't see them everyday or someone at home systematically renewing parts blind until it's fixed but saying that if you capable and the parts are cheaper that repair time and parts then why not replace suspension both sides all the drop/ anti rotation links lower arm bushes I have the 4 cost £30 genuine Renault the two that mount the lower arm to the sub frame I had two spare used arms as in Northern Ireland there is not that many scrap yards with 197/200's in them so while I am over in England at the different circuits I like to collect parts I got a lot from ALS performance as he was on the M6 and I passed him quite a bit on the way up to the Belfast boat from Cairnryan and I like the way he broken the cars keeping all the small parts that other scrap yards would smash or damage and that cost so very much from dealers.

With all the work involved change the gearbox mount with the other two solid mounts and the work involved it's better to change it than check it with the engine being held solid it's the only mount left with some give in it and most likely overworked and would make sense as it gets loaded as the clutch bites after that I'm out of ideas.

 

[Jamesd1263]

Not it’s standard, I only fitted all the solid mounts this week, it was doing the knocking before I fitted these so I know it’s not them. Airbox, suspension even the exhaust is standard. Could be a knackered shock. I plan on keeping it standard, maybe a few light mods as it’s my daily car. I have my mk1 16v clio as my weekend toy.