Considering a 197...

[jon_tanner]

Hi everyone,

Firstly, congrats on what seems to be a really nice friendly forum! I've spent the last few days reading several posts and it seems like one of the friendlier places on t'internet.

So, I am in a pretty good position at the moment where I have been offered a budget from work to get a company car. At the moment I have narrowed it down to a Civic Type R (potentially an EP3 Anniversary model), an Integra import but, the current favourite is a Clio 197 (R27 if I can).

Now, I know you are all fans of the 197 but I have to admit, the lack of low down torque is the only thing that is putting me off. I'm test driving an R27 tomorrow (I NEED Recaros in my life ) as the Cup chassis is what appeals, but, are there any proven ways to improve low down torque? Remaps, cams, throttle bodies? I'd have a budget of £1-2k to work things out.

Also, is my initial purchase budget of £9k for a 197 realistic? If I'm going to have one, I will definitely want a cup chassis and Recaros.

Thanks in advance!

Jon

 

[StevoR27]

Renault did an ECU remap on the later models at the end of 2007. This boosts the torque quite a bit in the lower revs. Make sure the one you test has this update on it. The myth of lack of flat low torque is pretty much eradicated with this update.

Also if you're getting an EP3 Civic you'll probably have this problem even more drastically than any decent 197.

The engines get better after 20 minutes of driving (ECU protection). Also with miles (20k plus) the engine will really loosen a lot and begin to reach its claimed HP (another exagerated myth). The engine also definitely needs 98-99RON fuel or will feel less responsive and not reach its claimed HP. Bear this in mind when you test drive a car that's on a forecourt and probably been ran on short trips with cheap fuel.

This is the best site for Clio's because it's moderated fairly and properly. People will always try and help you here (without making a fool out of you)

 

[jon_tanner]

Hi Stevo,

Thanks for the response. I'll be honest, I was wondering if a lot of the press I had read was a bit biased, as in 'jump in a new car that is in a high state of tune, probably has not been run in and loosened up' and rate its performance. Having rebuilt an old BMW 2002 M10 engine and then gone through the running in process, I was amazed at how different the engine felt over the course of a few thousand miles.


I did stumble across an article in Performance Car where a fella was running one as a daily on a long term test. He seemed far more impressed and also level in his views.

I can't lie, I'm really looking forward to test driving the car tomorrow! It's an R27 from a dealer so it has a pretty high price tag, but for a first drive I'm sure it will do the job

 

[Foxspeed]

welcome fella :thumbup:

the 197 has more torque lower down than the ctr :thumbsup: and given how well it goes at the top end i think the low down "pull" aint that bad !

 

[BenW]

It may be better than the civic at low revs but it's still not great. But, you have to remember that's not how the car was designed to be driven, if you want to drive fast then you need to drop a gear or 2 and get the revs up over 5000rpm which is where peak torque comes in.

I came away from my test drive a bit disapointed but that was mainly because I was with the dealer and didn't push it over 5000rpm (at the time I didn't know this is where it starts to sing!) so do push it up near the red line if you get the chance.

Having said all this, the gearbox is close ratio and you can drive at 30mph in 6th gear if you really want. It'll still go up hills without losing speed but won't be accelerating up hills.

 

[Willis]

Get the 197. You will NOT be dissapointed.

It's a much better car all round then an EP3 and there's honestly nothing in it in a straight line. In the corners there's no comparrison. The Clio is in a different league. I speak from experience too by the way. You should be able to find a minter for £9k too!!! Or go for a slightly older 197 and have some more money to buy goodies with.

Oh, and further to the BHP myth that these run 170ish BHP. Mine has read 193.5BHP and 192BHP on two seperate dyno's. I only ever use V-Power and I'm sure it must have some effect, however minimal. Mine's standard engine-wise apart an ITG Panel Filter and has covered just short of 34K. It goes, it really goes. Keep the revs high and it'll keep with most things on a twisty road. Obviously, they were never designed to be silly-power straigh line weapons.

The 'Tegs are nice, but how much trust can you place in Jap service history? Even if you can read/speak Japanese, it's not like you're going to phone up the garages over there and check they have records of a service is it? Plus, it won't give you anymore smiles per mile than a 197 would and it'd be more expensive to insure too I imagine.

 

[Maz]

Welcome, lucky you being able to have either of those cars as a company car

 

[Gouldy]

my choice out of the ones you mentioned; DC5 integra import any day.

failing that import an EP3 from japan, the Japanese domestic market models came with another 25hp standard. that means you can get a white EP3 fully standard with 225hp.

 

[197-F1]

Welcome buddy! Good choice with the R27. These have recaros as standard anyway. What colour is it at the dealers?

 

[jon_tanner]

Thanks for the responses everyone - I know you are all obviously fans but it's good to hear balanced feedback for people who live with the cars.

Welcome buddy! Good choice with the R27. These have recaros as standard anyway. What colour is it at the dealers?

It's exactly the same as yours... For me, its that, liquid yellow or white all the way.

 

[Gouldy]

did they do white R27s?

 

[BenW]

There is only 1 white R27 I think, and its number 500!

 

[jon_tanner]

did they do white R27s?

Thats where my theory falls down - I'm pretty sure I want the Cup chassis but I know I want the Recaros. If I don't get an R27, so be it.

Wit regard to the Recaros, would I maybe be best opting for a car in the colour I want with the cup chassis and then sourcing some new Recaros from Renault?

 

[BenW]

Noooo, the recaros are about £3k from renault parts

 

[Gouldy]

i see, i thought as much

 

[jon_tanner]

Noooo, the recaros are about £3k from renault parts

Ouch - that's pretty savage! I guess I best get the car specced properly from the start...

 

[foley]

I had an final edition ep3 with satnav recaro's ect, Was alot better made than the clio and the v-tec makes them fell faster, The ep3 was really bad for wheel spinning when the roads got wet,

 

[Steve Murr]

Buy a specced 197 then ( white) there a few for sale that are specced to r27 level without the decals & plaque

S

 

[Mike]

:welcome: to the site

 

[jon_tanner]

So, I went for my test drive today. Initial thoughts were 'wow, what a good looking car'! Everything is proportioned really well and overall, everything seemed to just fit. The Recaros and nothing short of awesome and things inside were all nice. The plastics aren't too cheap feeling and like I say, everything was pretty pleasant.

When I got to drive the car though, I was happy but not blown away. Don't get me wrong, I could instantly tell that the chassis is well sorted, and after 10 minutes of hooning around the local roads that I know well, things only got better. It was the power band that surprised me though - I quickly found flat spots and what's more, I was pretty taken aback at how late the power really kicked in. My friend who I took along and I both thought the same thing - "what this car needs is a turbo"!

Overall, I'm not saying I didn't enjoy myself - in fact I could tell that with a little time behind the wheel, the 197 would only get more and more rewarding to drive. It wasn't the instant hit I was expecting though.