Difficult decision

[RalphyBMW]

So the Clio is currently in a very good state of health, driving better than it has for some time, literally driving like a new car. While this is of course good news, the downside is that I think I might be afraid of giving it more track abuse.

I am considering buying a more "disposable" track car, maybe a Puma (watching one in a trade auction that looks like it might go for just a few hundred quid), or something along similar lines. A mate has recently bought £400 of Punto HGT which while nowhere near as capable as a 197 will be much cheaper to abuse, plus once he has sold the interior, etc. it will stand him at almost nothing - before he starts modifying it.

Now, if I were to get a track car then there wouldn't be much point in also having the 197 - while I will still need a day-to-day car I can't really justify the Clio's compromises (fuel economy, lack of a spare/tiny boot with spare, constant anticipation of something else breaking) if I am not benefiting from its track ability.

Not honestly sure what I will do, my Clio isn't worth a fortune so my options in terms of what to swap it for are limited. I suspect I will end up keeping it but part of me does wish I had gone for a CTR instead, what you sacrifice in outright handling is more than made up for in grown up feel and Honda reliability.

Anyone else in the same boat?

 

[james_h]

If you can afford it, I always think it's better having two cars - one for every day and one for track.

The trouble is you can possibly ruin a perfectly good car by trying to use it for both. Your 197 is still worth a substantial amount of money, I wouldn't personally want to track something worth so much. (not very often anyway)

You can pick up a 106 gti or even old 172 now for next to nothing. Strip them out, stiffen up the chassis and for little money you have an excellent track car.

 

[RalphyBMW]

To be honest I have done 5 track days in the 197 and it is brilliant at it, but the gearboxes especially are made of chocolate; I am less afraid of damaging the body and more about the car just breaking.

I probably need to just suck it up and get the 197 back on track - ideally while keeping an eye out for a cheap 1*2. Either that or flog it now!

 

[Steve Murr]

what about a 172 or 172 cup?

Coilovers etc- buy it with the most of the work already done-

S

 

[RalphyBMW]

Not a bad idea Steve, something like that would be ideal

 

[Steve Murr]

well if your going out & out track Shlag it would have to be a cup-

There loads going- ideally a tatty looking mid miler- with belts done- Say 60k miles for 2k ish-

Flog the wheels & buy some light ones- team dynamics pro race?
Strip it-
New front Disks Pads & braided hoses-
Maybe some second hand low miles coilovers off CS-

Bet you could do it for 2.5k
S

 

[RalphyBMW]

Looks like you can get into a Ph1 for under £1k, is there much benefit in going for a Ph2?

 

[james_h]

Looks like you can get into a Ph1 for under £1k, is there much benefit in going for a Ph2?

If your going to strip the car and replace the suspension not much advantage going for a 172 cup over a ph1 172 IMO.

would be better to put the 1k saved back in to the car for a set of racing tyres maybe, and some perspex windows etc etc.

 

[Arran]

Your Clio is more set up for a daily anyway with all the kit it has on it. A 172 would be good, be realistically how many times do you go on track and would that justify selling, buying a new or possibly 2 new cars just for 5, 6 days a year? Don't forget, if you break your track day car you will have to repair it anyway and although it may be cheaper, the 197 will only get cheaper on parts as used spares become more readily available.

If you only use the track car on the track, will you be trailering it there or be paying for the tax and insurance on it too? Because there is yet more expense.

If you plan on doing more track days, then it might be worth it. I think the best thing to do would be to make a list of predicted costs for both, and find out which is most likely to cost the most and which cost is the best option.

 

[RalphyBMW]

Arran, you make a good point. I think the issue with a dedicated track car is that you can ONLY really use it on track, something like an Elise or Caterham would also have some weekend appeal. Unfortunately entry level is closer to £5k and before you know it there is little or no benefit over using the 197.

 

[litchy]

Arrans spot on Will. I for one have the utmost respect that your using the 197 for what it excells the most in (with no trailer required). Yep clio has it short comings but there is not another car out there for so little money that gives you track/daily driver in the same package in standard form. Not sure how true the chocolate gearboxes are. Yep they have been replaced by some but based on how may cars have been sold-Not sure. The ones on fleebay have been there for months so they are hardly 'rockin' horse s**t!!!! LOL

 

[RalphyBMW]

To be fair I think it is the slave cylinders that fail more than the 'boxes themselves, still a pain to change though.

 

[litchy]

To be fair I think it is the slave cylinders that fail more than the 'boxes themselves, still a pain to change though.

Agree but if thats the only major problem with the 197, we're doing alright mate.....

 

[Arran]

After 94k did you say, plus track days, not too bad really.

 

[DanT]

After 94k did you say, plus track days, not too bad really.

Confidence restored!

 

[RalphyBMW]

Yeah, my car has done well considering its mileage, but any mechanical issues that I have had with mine (ball joints, manifold, slave cylinder) do seem relatively common on cars with much lower mileages. I guess what I am worried about is the slave going again, issues with my repaired manifold, some of the other 5 ball joints going...

 

[Rishi]

To be honest I have done 5 track days in the 197 and it is brilliant at it, but the gearboxes especially are made of chocolate; I am less afraid of damaging the body and more about the car just breaking.

I probably need to just suck it up and get the 197 back on track - ideally while keeping an eye out for a cheap 1*2. Either that or flog it now!

Isit really that unreliable?

I know gearboxes go & replacing parts is expensive, but surely you won't have as much fun in another car?

If i was to go for a real track focused car it would be just that, not a road legal car in anyway, some kind of one seater, otherwise i think using having a sporty road car like the 197 is perfect for what you want

 

[litchy]

Isit really that unreliable?

I know gearboxes go & replacing parts is expensive, but surely you won't have as much fun in another car?

If i was to go for a real track focused car it would be just that, not a road legal car in anyway, some kind of one seater, otherwise i think using having a sporty road car like the 197 is perfect for what you want

I agree. Also I don't know of any other sports car that I've owned that didn't have its general 'issues' and by default are always quite costly. Gearboxes and clutches are often the weakest points in most sporty road cars...especially when you start looking for more power....

 

[fmp]

see, thats what i love about my 200, is the fact its a great car on road and track.

I can drive to the track, thrash it all day, and drive home in it.

With any car that you put under the stresses of track days things will wear out quicker, but there is no avoiding that. Just maybe on a dedicated track car it will happen over a longer period of time due to lack of use.

I have been there myself with the whole track car, trailor, tow car full of wheels and spares. And whilst it does allow more scope with regards to tuning a track car, it is also a fair chunk of hassle every time you want to use it.

But its whatever suits you best!

 

[luke3]

94k wow that's really good!!