How to stop/reduce brake fade??

[Reecey]

Yesterday out on track i got major brake fade at one point that i thought i was actually going to be heading straight into the stands :| (dont ask how i got out of it!)

How can i reduce/stop brake fade? What are the best discs/pads/brake hoses i can get?
Im after the best option/set up but i dont wanted to be spending out thousands just on a brake set up though.

A friend told me that he had Ferodo brakes on his car and he never experiance brake fade when these where fitted!?

Reece...

 

[ryan197]

i think just uprating the lines and better fluid would be the cheapest to over come brake fade.

 

[Raptor6767]

Ferodo DS2500 brake pads (~180€)
OEM rotors are just enough, BUT if you want, you can get Brembo double plate rotors (~1000€)
Motul RBF660 brake fluid (~20€/0,5L)
Goodridge brake hoses

 

[RalphyBMW]

Depends what you are after, for only occasional track use the standard pads are fine with grooved discs, I never had fade with them.

I have now changed to DS2500's but only because the heat made my standard pads break up; performance never changed and was consistently excellent.

I am running standard brake hoses and though I did have the brake fluid changed late last year I didn't notice any change in performance.

 

[PhillipM]

Did the car just not want to stop, or did the pedal go spongy too?

Change the brake fluid for something decent (RBF600 is cheap and decent enough), and change it every year, and swap pads for something more suited should give you enough for the odd trackday - I'd recommend Carbotech XP8's as a solution that are fine when cold for road use too, but they can be noisy and dusty for a daily driver - what do you use the car for mainly?
What pads you want really depends on whether the odd squealing noise or dust from cold pads bothers you or not.

 

[Reecey]

The pedal went spongy and the car just didnt want to stop lol! so i then started braking a hell lot earlier from then on. But i have heard the Ferodo DS2500's are good. But they seem quite pricey. I get brake fade quite alot, so anything that stops that would be great. Whats the main issue with brake fade? The discs or the pads?

 

[Ed...]

Hmmmmm there's a few things mate,

Fluid upgrade
Disk upgrade
Pad upgrade
Line upgrade

 

[mark_1873]

Your fluid will be fooked.

As for recommendations I used the same as above,

Fluid: Motul RBF 600.
Pads: DS2500.
HEL Braided brake lines.
Also had AP Racing discs but they're pricey and the standards do the job.

How long are your stints and do you do a cool down lap ?

 

[PhillipM]

The pedal went spongy and the car just didnt want to stop lol!

That's the fluid boiling then. Change the fluid for something better and get it changed more regularly.

Whats the main issue with brake fade? The discs or the pads?

Pads make far, far more difference than discs do, and that's from someone with the fanciest discs on the site :rofl:

 

[RalphyBMW]

Problem is that if you go for a pad that works at higher temperatures then there is a greater chance that you will warp the discs. It is a bit of a catch 22;

Standard discs with performance pads = possible warping of the discs due to temps beyond design spec

Grooved 2 piece discs with standard pads = pads crack due to temps beyond design spec

Standard discs with standard pads = pads fade before any damage is done to discs or pads

Grooved 2 piece discs with performance pads = Win. I hope!

 

[Graeme GTR]

sorry for hijack, will be brief. How much fluid do you need?

 

[PhillipM]

Problem is that if you go for a pad that works at higher temperatures then there is a greater chance that you will warp the discs. It is a bit of a catch 22;

Only if you start getting to silly temperatures, which you're still going to do with your 2-piece discs unless they're larger as well anyway, they don't give you much more in terms of reducing warping (although they help more with the expansion as the iron heats and cools so pad and disc wear is generally better at higher temps).
You'll find your standard cast iron discs are fine up until ~650*c and a chunk higher intermittently, whereas the standard pads probably start to let go around the 350*c area, plenty to go at.

 

[BenW]

Get some decent pads and fluid, that should be more than enough. Realistically it's very unlikely you'll warp discs, even when it feels like you've warped them it's probably just pad deposits from over heated pads.

Also, uprated lines are only good for improved feel and won't help with brake fade.

 

[Richy200]

Uprated fluid and lines has done a really good job for me and brake fade and better feel!

 

[GrumpyTwig]

Uprated fluid and lines has done a really good job for me and brake fade and better feel!

QFT

Also swapping pads to ds2500s, the tyres start to become the limiting factor in how hard you can brake.

Used to find the oem setup would fade massively after not very long I changed the pads and got tired way before the brakes did.

Haven't had a chance to really test out the braided lines/fluid but mostly that just gives a better feed unless your fluid is shot (mine was )

 

[Richy200]

see I feel these fade fast! which is a shame
The new fluid helped a bit but yeah the pads are letting me down when they are gone ds2500 are going on for sure! have them on my track day car and they are more than adequate! have ds3000's for that too but prefer the 2500's!

 

[richwig83]

Run some 2-3" ducting from the front grill to the disc... That should help.

 

[tjthemonkey]

Just to clear up what actually causes brake fade, it's gas which is created by the pads when braking, this pushes the pad and discs apart... less pressure between the discs and pads gives less braking effect.

To overcome the issue, use featured (grooved or drilled discs) these have some drawbacks in that they can give accelerated wear on the pads, and some people will argue that because you loose some contact area on the actual disc surface that the initial bite from cold would be less - but this imho will be a minute loss and far outweighed by what you gain when things are hot.

Different pad materials mask the problem as they can be more abrasive an are designed to not sublime to gas until a higher temperature is reached.

hope this helps.

 

[PhillipM]

Outgassing causing brake fade hasn't really been an issue with most pads for the last 30 years...it tends to be more the lubricants overheating these days and the reaction at the transfer film being interfered with, you'll find the pads wear much faster when overheated because of it - there can still be a period of green fade on many pads when still bedding in, but that shouldn't be an issue here.