Advice on a claim needed please.

[Yiannis197]

Apologies in advance for the long post.

So a few of you may know that I was involved in an incident on my last Alpine trip last year. To cut the long story short an Austrian guy drove into my lane and as a result out mirrors crashed. His mirror shattered and mine broke (cf cover) and took the door on its way creating a massive dent. He wouldn't accept responsibility and he wouldn't even accept the 'everyone pays their own damage' option I at the time put on the table. Eventually we called the police, exchanged details and left. Obviously I called my insurance straight away and informed them of the situation. I called them again as soon as I returned to the UK to give a detailed report.

After 6 months my insurance called me to tell me that the other party is still chasing it, they won't accept responsibility and they want the full claim. There were no witnesses on the scene, no cameras no nothing so basically it's my word against his and noone can prove anything. My insurance told them so and offered again the 50/50 settlement, however they won't accept it and they are now saying that they'll take it to court. And now the whole fun starts...

The woman from my insurance told me that if we decide to go to court then I'll have to physically be there, which means days off work, travel expenses, accommodation etc. So my question is, is that true? Do I have to be there should this go forward? I spoke to them very briefly this morning and I suggested to inform the other party that if they wish to take it further I'll claim for half of my car's damage (should it settle for 50/50 which it will given that they can't prove a thing) and all of my expenses as well given that they would drag me in Austria for no reason. Also they would have to pay for the legal aspect of things, all that for creating a fuss for £230.

Where do I stand with this people? I really believe that the other party is bluffing and they thing that I'd say 'sod it I can't be bothered', accept responsibility and ends things there. Can they really take something like this to court even though they know they don't have any legal grounds? I know that even with the 50/50 settlement I'd still have a claim on my records so I can indeed say sod it, let the insurance pay and life goes on as normal...however it's the principle side of things that doesn't allow me to accept it. Also the insurance is trying to talk me into accepting this, I suppose because they want to close the claim case asap? And £460 (full damage of the other person's car) is definitely not something they'd lose their sleep for.

Any input on this very much appreciated. I've never dealt with insurances in my life and I've been driving for 18 years lol

Thanks

 

[Guy]

When my 197 was written off by a lorry the case lasted nearly 2 years (this was in the UK though). Long story short, it went 50/50 but I HAD to go to court (as did my witnesses). My insurance company said that if we don't go, we have no evidence and we can't be defended. This was Adrian Flux at the time.

This sounds like a really **** situation and he probably knows that this is probably exactly what your position would end up being. As it would go 50/50 in court normally none of your expenses would be covered by your insurance. Personally, for that amount of money and what it would cost you to be out there I wouldn't bother. I would say to my insurance company, unless you're paying (no matter what the outcome), I'm not coming and just take the hit. I can't see an at fault claim of that amount being too different to the 50/50 best situation. If you had a solid case to win then it would be an obvious decision to go out.

Or - make the best out of a bad situation and make it a holiday, go visit Vienna!

 

[Yiannis197]

Sorry to hear about your write off mate, this is something I've always feared of, for someone to drive into me and write off my car...

You see, the way I approach it (I'm not a lawyer but I want to believe that common sense applies) is that we already offered them 50/50 (on their claim only not mine, I paid for mine, cut my losses) and they rejected it, now they take us to court for the whole lot. Now the court will decide on 50/50 since the other party has no solid legal grounds so their 'full claim case' will be lost and the outcome will be something we initially offered and they rejected. Now in lights of this, won't the other party have to pay for my expenses and my insurance's lawyer because they dragged us into Austria for something they couldn't prove? (and they knew it in the first place?)

Also, if I go to court I'll put my expenses on the table which is brand new powerfold mirror, carbon fibre covers and bodyshop work and I'll probably end up getting half of what I paid something I wasn't ever expecting to get back. With that said, it seems to me that I'll make a trip in Austria fully paid and I'll also get some money back. Am I missing something guys or common sense doesn't apply to the courts?

Thanks.

 

[sam-r27]

I would go out of principle providing you can get the time off etc. Have you spoken to a lawyer about it at all just to get some advice, that would be my next point of call I think.

As said above if you travel there make the week of it!!

 

[Yiannis197]

This is my next thing Sam. Is there somewhere I can get free legal advice or there is no such thing as that?

 

[pu11y]

Common sense does indeed apply when it comes to the courts, but I'll have read up on a few points later. Any UK insurer would have gladly accepted split liability long ago. It sounds like you have a very stubborn (and fraudulent) Austrian policyholder, and a nonsensical (and fraudulent) Austrian claims handler. My best guess, at this stage, is that they are scaring you into accepting full liability on the basis that you could be accountable for the legal costs including a trip to Austria. Knowing that your insurer would not want to inflate a small claim with travel costs, they think you might accept full liability which could be cheaper than pushing for 50/50. I'm unsure on the rules regarding attending court in a foreign EU country, if your insurers initial offer of spilt liability was without prejudice, or weather you have legal expenses cover. If you retained any kind of police report, that could potentially be of great significance.

 

[minesaturbo]

is it a principle or a cost thing? i,.e your insurance prems increasing,

just do a couple quotes on web as new customer , one with accident recorded as fault and another recorded as non fault. im guessing your no claims was protected so you would have same number to record on each quote.

if there's not much difference , i would nt bother

 

[pu11y]

Most insurers have a free legal help line, give them a ring if they do.

 

[Yiannis197]

Thanks for the input pu11y.

The Austrian policy holder was an arrogant, rude and cocky old man, when the incident took place he came back started shouting at me in Austrian as if I was in the wrong, he would refuse to speak to me in English even though he knew English (he spoke English when police arrived) and he was one of those 'we are far better than you foreigners who come here and spoil our country'' guy. What a complete cock he is and me being stubborn is that because I don't want him to come clean after he being in the wrong! He also lied saying that I took over half his lane, however the lane was not wide enough to accommodate one and a half cars so he would have had to literally go off the road and drive on the grass. guess what...no signs of his car going off road something that I reported to the police when I gave my statement.

I haven't got any police reports in my possession as such but my insurance has, I gave them the reference number and all the details the Austrian police gave me. It is clearly a principal thing, I don't care about me getting any cash back or anything, I just don't want him to come clean but I want to make sure this 'principle' thing won't cost me a thing.

I have legal cover on my policy, I might have to call them first thing on Monday. I just don't want them to try and talk into me accepting full liability because it'd suit them...
[MENTION=1072]minesaturbo[/MENTION] no point doing that in my case mate because my car is modified and there are no insurances on these moneysupermarket websites who would insure me anyway. I'm with Sky insurance at the moment with a very good premium considering my mods and postcode. Thanks for the suggestion anyway

 

[Guy]

Sorry to hear about your write off mate, this is something I've always feared of, for someone to drive into me and write off my car...

You see, the way I approach it (I'm not a lawyer but I want to believe that common sense applies) is that we already offered them 50/50 (on their claim only not mine, I paid for mine, cut my losses) and they rejected it, now they take us to court for the whole lot. Now the court will decide on 50/50 since the other party has no solid legal grounds so their 'full claim case' will be lost and the outcome will be something we initially offered and they rejected. Now in lights of this, won't the other party have to pay for my expenses and my insurance's lawyer because they dragged us into Austria for something they couldn't prove? (and they knew it in the first place?)

Also, if I go to court I'll put my expenses on the table which is brand new powerfold mirror, carbon fibre covers and bodyshop work and I'll probably end up getting half of what I paid something I wasn't ever expecting to get back. With that said, it seems to me that I'll make a trip in Austria fully paid and I'll also get some money back. Am I missing something guys or common sense doesn't apply to the courts?

Thanks.

Unfortunately mate it sounds like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Everything you say sounds like the Austrian company are trying to play this. Doesn't matter where you are there are some people out there who are just C***s. The lorry that took my car out claimed all kinds of injuries even though he only caught the corner. He wouldn't of felt a thing.

I'd lay it out to your insurance company. If I don't go exactly what will the costs be etc so you can work out a new or raised premium with your insurer. If you go out there and get 50/50, what money or anything would you possibly get back? I had a friend who was taken to court in similar circumstances to me. 2 hours before the hearing the opposing insurance pulled out and accepted the offer his insurance company had made. Maybe your insurance company would be able to play a game back, pretend you're going and pull out at the last minute and just accept liability should the opposing company not do it first? Might be risky but you may as well play it if isn't worth going!

 

[Yiannis197]

Thanks [MENTION=4050]Guy[/MENTION] some valuable info here. And I say that because the woman from the insurance who was dealing with the claim told me that should we go ahead with this there is no turning back, if we say we'd to the court we have to go full stop, apparently that's not the case according to your friend's case. Maybe that woman was not aware of all the legalities..

I know for sure that it's gonna be 50/50 should it go to court, I just have to find out whether the court will order the third party insurance to pay for my insurance expenses (which they are gonna be much more than £230) so as not to affect my premium...

 

[Guy]

Thanks @Guy some valuable info here. And I say that because the woman from the insurance who was dealing with the claim told me that should we go ahead with this there is no turning back, if we say we'd to the court we have to go full stop, apparently that's not the case according to your friend's case. Maybe that woman was not aware of all the legalities..

I know for sure that it's gonna be 50/50 should it go to court, I just have to find out whether the court will order the third party insurance to pay for my insurance expenses (which they are gonna be much more than £230) so as not to affect my premium...

As far as I'm aware with my 50/50 I didn't get a penny back in expenses such as phone calls/car hire etc. I lost half my no claims and my premium doubled to £750ish (this was a write off though) - total claim value was £15,000. Of all the premiums I've paid, the insurance companies are still out of pocket vs me haha! Once you say you're going to go, that isn't it, you can pull out of course, they can't force you to go - it will just incur more cost for your insurance company which is why they say that.

 

[Yiannis197]

I see, thanks!

In your case, did you actually offer 50/50 and the third party rejected it that's why you ended up in court or you wanted the full claim and you ended up getting half? Or was it that the lorry driver wanted full claim and he got half?

 

[Guy]

Originally I was chasing him as at fault but then due to the highway code with giving lorries enough room to manoeuvre (long story - utter bullsh*t) they advised me to offer 50/50. So I did as this was now a year down the road, I had got the money for they car and I didn't care anymore. But the lorry driver would STILL not accept 50/50. So it went to court, fairly simple and short - went 50/50 as expected. All it cost me was my excess as the car was obviously paid for but that's it. I was surprised that I kept half my no claims though, it wasn't even protected haha. I did ask the company how on earth that made sense but they just said that's how it's done!

 

[Chris]

I remember when this happened, very sorry to hear its still going on, what a complete ass.

As a principle sort of thing, id say fight it to the grave, as he is clearly lying, call the bluff.

However from a reality perspective, is it worth all the agro, time off work, driving/flying to Austria, costs involved, trying to claim costs back, all for £460 claim that your not even going to fully win, only have a 50/50 settlement, which as you said is still on your record? Probably not.


I would seriously consider next time you travel abroad getting one of these driving cameras, they're like £30 off eBay, not being high and mighty saying this, don't take it like that! I'm also thinking of getting one with all the morons on the road. My grandad has his wing mirror smashed couple of weeks ago by a farmer who just drove off, cost him £200 out his own pocket, and I travel on the same road daily to commute.

 

[Pav]

nasty piece of **** he is...sorry to hear that man...shouldnt your insurance company fight for you rather than advising you to accept the responsibility for the incident??
what about your mates?did they not witness it??

 

[Yiannis197]

I know Chris, this is what I'm thinking, especially at this period when I've got so many things on my plate...

Do you know what? I had a camera at the time filming the spirited driving sessions but at the time it wasn't on because we were going really slowly, enjoying the scenery and all that. To say I was gutted is an understatement...

 

[Yiannis197]

nasty piece of **** he is...sorry to hear that man...shouldnt your insurance company fight for you rather than advising you to accept the responsibility for the incident??
what about your mates?did they not witness it??

No not at all Pav, I was the last car of the convoy to my bad luck..no one saw a thing

I suppose the insurance wishes to close the case asap with the minimum effort and money required, I don't blame them for doing so but it really pains me to know I was in the right and having to accept liability...

 

[Pav]

of course they do..too much hassle for £500 for them...well what does your common sense tell you??
you will pursue this and end up spending a little fortune getting there etc to hear"sorry mate you will pay a half" or you will accept liability and be maybe better off...tough choice..
im very dissapointed in him personally..the fact he was so arrogant and offensive..thats what would upset me the most...

 

[Chris]

I know Chris, this is what I'm thinking, especially at this period when I've got so many things on my plate...

Do you know what? I had a camera at the time filming the spirited driving sessions but at the time it wasn't on because we were going really slowly, enjoying the scenery and all that. To say I was gutted is an understatement...

Gutting, thats such a shame, couldn't have had worse luck with that mate.

Id save yourself the agro and stress, just sign it off. He has all the cards, his country, bias insurers and yours not wanting to fight it. Just my opinion.

Goodluck