New brake pads
- Thread starter Brookshe
- Start date
pad squeal is the result of pad vibration - using something like copperslip "cushions" the pad in the caliper and hence reduces/stops said vibration :coffee:
GrumpyTwig
"the troll hunter" with added boost!
Odd thing is don't the OEM pads have an anti-squeel backing? Seem to remember something being there.....
Yet they squeeled way more than my ds2500s which have no backing......
Yet they squeeled way more than my ds2500s which have no backing......
GrumpyTwig
"the troll hunter" with added boost!
http://www.ferodo.co.uk/ferodo_web/technical-info.aspx
explains plenty here of basically all reasons for brake noise :thumbup1:
Still no hard facts in there that pin it on the brake pad vibrating. Apparently it depends on the pitch of the squeak. Could be a number of things ie DTV (disk thickness variation) I admit it says the brake pad vibrates but on the other hand it says this is often inaudible.
I would like to add how can a pad vibrate when under intense pressure from 1 the moving disk and 2 the pistons in the brake caliper. I meen I'm no scientist but something doesnt add up. This is ferodo covering up rubbish brake material IMO. EBC never squeeled and brembo after a wash was always right as rain. Pointing to a build up of brake dust between pad and disk.
Is there any independent evidence to show this as I'm still not convinced that this is closed book stuff
I would like to add how can a pad vibrate when under intense pressure from 1 the moving disk and 2 the pistons in the brake caliper. I meen I'm no scientist but something doesnt add up. This is ferodo covering up rubbish brake material IMO. EBC never squeeled and brembo after a wash was always right as rain. Pointing to a build up of brake dust between pad and disk.
Is there any independent evidence to show this as I'm still not convinced that this is closed book stuff
Simple fact is, with the copper grease people find they don't squeal. Is any more proof needed??
ferodo brakes rubbish.......dont think so!
so to pour water on your fire - when applying the brakes the small irregular surface of the disc and pad cause vibration or "movement" thus leading to the noise - most noise is under light application of the brakes - thats why sometimes just putting a small chamfer on the pads eliminates the noise as they arent moved by the wear lip on the disc - but again there are other causes...
yes there are lots of causes but the main one is pad vibration - why else would the noise stop once copperslip is applied
i was lucky enough to work on a fleet of vehicles that went through brakes faster than the ring taxi - i am not talking about doing the odd brake change here - i have changed hundreds of brake pads and discs - and also using my experience of what i have had to replace/repair over the years - even seen caliper pistons working directly on the disc as the pad had got so thin it had dropped out!
you wont get a "yes its 100% pad vibration causing the noise" as there are other components that wear/deteriorate with use but experience with the brembos is that the majority is pad generated noise :thumbup1:
It's very easy for the disc and pad to resonate, even with pressure applied - in fact that can make it worse as it distorts the disc slightly through stress - which causes vibration through the pad and discs.
The whole disc is basically a big bell shaped amplifier too, which doesn't help.
As said above, when it's mainly under light usage it's generally the leading edge of the pad digging in an making the pad itself resonate as it tries to twist in the caliper, which is why a slight chamfer can often help cure it, and the copperslip as it damps the pad vibration.
No-one is going to say it's 100% this, as it has many causes, from pad chamfers, caliper design, disc resonance, pad material, backing plate thickness, piston stagger, etc, etc.
However, you severely underestimate the energy in a vibrating structure if you think it should stop from the pressure. Vibration is public enemy no.1 in most structural applications.
The whole disc is basically a big bell shaped amplifier too, which doesn't help.
As said above, when it's mainly under light usage it's generally the leading edge of the pad digging in an making the pad itself resonate as it tries to twist in the caliper, which is why a slight chamfer can often help cure it, and the copperslip as it damps the pad vibration.
No-one is going to say it's 100% this, as it has many causes, from pad chamfers, caliper design, disc resonance, pad material, backing plate thickness, piston stagger, etc, etc.
However, you severely underestimate the energy in a vibrating structure if you think it should stop from the pressure. Vibration is public enemy no.1 in most structural applications.
Some brake squeal is down to the material the pad is made from and can't be solved by putting copper slip on the back but 99% of pads on road cars will benefit from a thin, even layer of copper slip on the backs.
I doubt there is any 'evidence' for this as the knowledge is gained through experience. When experience tells you something you don't need evidence.
I doubt there is any 'evidence' for this as the knowledge is gained through experience. When experience tells you something you don't need evidence.
richandgem
Platinum Member
Carbon lorraines worked well, but all 4 pads fell to bits after 1 trackday in the 172. Will never touch them again.
I ran DS2500 on my 182 Trophy and IMO they were pretty good, better than OE and miles better than EBC. However I ran Pagid Blues on my 172 and they were amazing.
However the main thing I have found is keep the fluid fresh.
Poor fluid = poor brakes regardless of how good the discs and pads are.
However the main thing I have found is keep the fluid fresh.
Poor fluid = poor brakes regardless of how good the discs and pads are.
there are tonnes of other brake materials out there I know and the idea of the clio cup is that the cars are pretty much how the cars are on the road apart from a few breather mods, totally stripped and a sadev sequential, on the back of standard OE pads it stamps ferodo for brembo blah blah I can argue for hours on whats the best pad. All I was sayig is that I have used and changed and used and changed i cant remmeber how many times on my car and tbh yes i used to get squeel but i put it more down to material than the vibration on a whole. for example a softer material when vibrating will make less noise than a harder (more dense pad) ive used ferodo ive used pagid ive used EBC tbh ive tried alot more than most and all I was saying is that it CAN NOT be put down to 1 thing as si said.
basically it could be the material and it could be the vibration so it doesnt matter
basically it could be the material and it could be the vibration so it doesnt matter
It's only really race pad materials that squeal, most road pad squeal will not be caused by the material.
So, it's not a lot of effort to put some copper slip on and in most cases will stop any squeal. Would be silly not to.
