Seeking helpful advice on DIY cambelt change.

[Mason]

When I changed my belt at work I had the choice of 2 horse shoe timing tools, they both had the same timing tool number but the profile of the tips that sit in the cams were slightly different. So 1 was a very snug fit as where the other wasn't but IMO would still do the job as I used both tools and was fine.
Bebbetufs you maybe have struggled like I did to refit the timing tool after manually turning the engine over as turning it over takes up the tension in the belt and the slightest of slake between the 2 cam gears will cause the timing slots to be slightly out of line. It took me a second go to align it correct but the auto dater book I was using explained to free the cam sprockets from the cams after fitting the timing tool, fit and tension the belt then tighten the cam sprockets remove timing tool and turn over this should eliminate slack between the cams therefore the timing tool should slide in after turn the engine over. Surpose u haven't got to worry now though as it done

 

[henderson]

if the horse shoe is a touch slack i suppose you could shim the gap equally either side

saying that i've never done the job s i wouldn't know...

 

[Mentalpen]

WRONG!

it is not the horse shoes (so to speak) but the belts are not always exact lengths.

This affects ALL the manufactures of the belts.

 

[Foxspeed]

if you only rotate the engine once as you say then they wont fit as the cams turn at half engine speed - its two turns to bring the cams back to time...

then theres the tensioning of the belt etc - thats why the tools are fitted and the crank and cam wheels are loose so the belt can be tensioned then locked

 

[shakey_hand_man]

Officially, there are at least three Renault tools that I know of required to time to the service manual..

The horse shoe item, the geared one that sits between the two pulleys and the pin that sits in the crank.

A lot of people don't use the geared one when torquing up, the cams twist considerably. As long as you check them after: two turns, refit crank pin and horseshoe you should be fine. When I time them I normally, do two turns then check, then another two turns and check, just to make sure I haven't missed a trick.

 

[Chrisgti6]

realistically, with the correct tools, how hard is this job? I've done a fair few belts in the past (inc the F5R IDE engine in the megane and laguna). Do the tools enable you to set the tension correctly, or do you need something else for that?

How much do the tools cost to buy? and are the renault ones best or are there alternatives?

 

[bebbetufs]

I have all the tools neded and they are genuine. The tools are fine, but the slight slack in the belt + more significantly the large tolerances on either the slots in one or both cam shafts or the horse shoe tool itself alows the cams to twist and build up enough tension that it won't fit back in after turning the engine over one complete cycle (one revolution of the cams, two of the crank). In my case it was easily correctible by manually positioning them and then inserting the tool to check alignment. (Allways leave the crank lock pin in place when doing this). When adjusted manually the timing remains spot on after several cycles of the engine.

Regarding the difficulty of DIY'ing this job I would not want to do this in the drive. It is not very hard technically, but it requires a place to be, time, good tools like a set of torque wrenches, ratcheting ring wrenches and some nice extensions to make it bearable in my opininon. This in addition to the special tools. One would also need a basic understanding of the mechanics of an engine.

I would gladly have paid to have this done if there had been a trustworthy specialist shop over here that charged in the neighbourhood of what you pay in the UK. To pay £1650 for the job and then having it done by someone who has never seen an F4R or heard of an RS version of anything, is simply not an option. They would almost certainly have messed up the timing.

 

[Foxspeed]

I have all the tools neded and they are genuine. The tools are fine, but the slight slack in the belt + more significantly the large tolerances on either the slots in one or both cam shafts or the horse shoe tool itself alows the cams to twist and build up enough tension that it won't fit back in after turning the engine over one complete cycle (one revolution of the cams, two of the crank). In my case it was easily correctible by manually positioning them and then inserting the tool to check alignment. (Allways leave the crank lock pin in place when doing this). When adjusted manually the timing remains spot on after several cycles of the engine.

Regarding the difficulty of DIY'ing this job I would not want to do this in the drive. It is not very hard technically, but it requires a place to be, time, good tools like a set of torque wrenches, ratcheting ring wrenches and some nice extensions to make it bearable in my opininon. This in addition to the special tools. One would also need a basic understanding of the mechanics of an engine.

I would gladly have paid to have this done if there had been a trustworthy specialist shop over here that charged in the neighbourhood of what you pay in the UK. To pay £1650 for the job and then having it done by someone who has never seen an F4R or heard of an RS version of anything, is simply not an option. They would almost certainly have messed up the timing.

a worthwile saving in your case

think the morale of the job is check and re-check again and take your time (thats not a pun!!!)

 

[ben_r1]

I did the 172 with a Sealey £40 timing tool kit to save money lol, car drove identical afterwards.

 

[bebbetufs]

The belts have been changed along with some other few things and I'm ready to fill with coolant. The job is a bit tedious....

I've run it for some time with clean water just just to rinse it a bit. I have to flush it again and fill with proper coolant. Now I have some G30 long life coolant which is aluminium safe. Can I use this instead of the Type D coolant Renault recommends?