F1 season 2017 comments here

[Benno]

I was going nuts with how quiet it went about Vettel and the pass!!!!! Especially as it was no more than 5 mins after giving a 5s penalty for the same bloody thing! Bunch of rule twisting pricks!

 

[Chris]

I was going nuts with how quiet it went about Vettel and the pass!!!!! Especially as it was no more than 5 mins after giving a 5s penalty for the same bloody thing! Bunch of rule twisting pricks!

All corrupt bullshit...

 

[///M]

For those who haven't seen it, the new regulations for 2021 are:

• 1.6 Litre, V6 Turbo Hybrid
• 3000rpm higher engine running speed range to improve the sound
• Prescriptive internal design parameters to restrict development costs and discourage extreme designs and running conditions
• Removal of the MGUH
• More powerful MGUK with focus on manual driver deployment in race together with option to save up energy over several laps to give a driver controlled tactical element to racing
• Single turbo with dimensional constraints and weight limits
• Standard energy store and control electronics
• High Level of external prescriptive design to give ‘Plug-And-Play’ engine/chassis/transmission swap capability
• Intention to investigate tighter fuel regulations and limits on number of fuels used

Apparently these are deliberately vague to stop teams starting development now and will be firmed up later in 2018 in an attempt to level up the playing field.

And next week there will be more details about a budget cap and redistribution of the money given to the teams.

How long before Ferrari issue a threat to quit?

 

[Jimmy]

For those who haven't seen it, the new regulations for 2021 are:

• 1.6 Litre, V6 Turbo Hybrid
• 3000rpm higher engine running speed range to improve the sound
• Prescriptive internal design parameters to restrict development costs and discourage extreme designs and running conditions
• Removal of the MGUH
• More powerful MGUK with focus on manual driver deployment in race together with option to save up energy over several laps to give a driver controlled tactical element to racing
• Single turbo with dimensional constraints and weight limits
• Standard energy store and control electronics
• High Level of external prescriptive design to give ‘Plug-And-Play’ engine/chassis/transmission swap capability
• Intention to investigate tighter fuel regulations and limits on number of fuels used

Apparently these are deliberately vague to stop teams starting development now and will be firmed up later in 2018 in an attempt to level up the playing field.

And next week there will be more details about a budget cap and redistribution of the money given to the teams.

How long before Ferrari issue a threat to quit?

Interesting post Mes, thank you for that.

Yep, you can definitely see Ferrari spitting the dummy out when they learn they won't get a shed load of cash regardless of where they finish in the championship. The distribution of money has to change, the current system is terrible - how many more manufacturers/teams would be more inclined to enter if there was a fairer sharing out of the money...

 

[///M]

Interesting post Mes, thank you for that.

Yep, you can definitely see Ferrari spitting the dummy out when they learn they won't get a shed load of cash regardless of where they finish in the championship. The distribution of money has to change, the current system is terrible - how many more manufacturers/teams would be more inclined to enter if there was a fairer sharing out of the money...

I'm really hopeful that is what they're working towards. Even more hopeful they manage it.

Ferrari getting $160m for doing nothing is plain wrong. The whole of Force India's budget is less than that!

 

[Foxspeed]

For those who haven't seen it, the new regulations for 2021 are:

• 1.6 Litre, V6 Turbo Hybrid
• 3000rpm higher engine running speed range to improve the sound
• Prescriptive internal design parameters to restrict development costs and discourage extreme designs and running conditions
• Removal of the MGUH
• More powerful MGUK with focus on manual driver deployment in race together with option to save up energy over several laps to give a driver controlled tactical element to racing
• Single turbo with dimensional constraints and weight limits
• Standard energy store and control electronics
• High Level of external prescriptive design to give ‘Plug-And-Play’ engine/chassis/transmission swap capability
• Intention to investigate tighter fuel regulations and limits on number of fuels used

Apparently these are deliberately vague to stop teams starting development now and will be firmed up later in 2018 in an attempt to level up the playing field.

And next week there will be more details about a budget cap and redistribution of the money given to the teams.

How long before Ferrari issue a threat to quit?

renault & merc already not agreeing to this...

 

[Benno]

renault & merc already not agreeing to this...

I get the feeling it's going to throw the door wide open for new competitors..F1 as we know it is slipping away...

 

[///M]

renault & merc already not agreeing to this...

Yes mate, I saw that last night too. I can see a bit of a bun fight on the horizon. It was Renault and Merc who called the shots last time.

The lunatics are running the asylum.

The manufacturers have far too much power. Bernie has a lot to answer for. It's a marketing circus now and hasn't been a proper sport for a long time.

 

[Sean197]

I hope Ferrari do threaten to quit, and they get told to fuck right off, sick of them and their bloody politics.

To an extent I think the manufacturers should have a bigger say on engines than the independents, after all it's them who have to pay for the R&D and then supply other teams, and without them there would be no racing. I certainly don't want the whole grid running Ferrari engines! I actually agree with what Mercedes and Renault are saying - they'll have to spend millions on R&D as the power delivery means it'll be essentially a new engine, as well as continuing to develop the current engine to the current rules spec. It doesn't make sense when they're trying to introduce cost-cutting measures.

 

[///M]

I hope Ferrari do threaten to quit, and they get told to fuck right off, sick of them and their bloody politics.

To an extent I think the manufacturers should have a bigger say on engines than the independents, after all it's them who have to pay for the R&D and then supply other teams, and without them there would be no racing. I certainly don't want the whole grid running Ferrari engines! I actually agree with what Mercedes and Renault are saying - they'll have to spend millions on R&D as the power delivery means it'll be essentially a new engine, as well as continuing to develop the current engine to the current rules spec. It doesn't make sense when they're trying to introduce cost-cutting measures.

Disagree so much with the manufacturers having a bigger say. It's them and their involvement that has helped get the "sport" to where it is now. I'd much rather a field full of garagistas and genuine racers rather than big corporations who are there purely to get us to buy more of their stuff.

I know it's pie in the sky thinking and it's far too late for that.

But Renault and Merc complaining about expense when they're largely responsible for engines that are so expensive even the likes of Porsche think it's too much to get involved, is a bit like them trying to lock the gate when the horse has already bolted.

F1 is in a very very bad place right now. And sadly it's driven by marketing. We're all going to be forced into electric autonomous cars very soon. They can bang on about road relevance all they like but when you look at how they're pushing us down a one way street with everyday driving where's the end game?

Roborace?

The sport is dying and it's because of marketing scum needing ROI. Cherish what we have now because it's only getting worse.

 

[Sean197]

Disagree so much with the manufacturers having a bigger say. It's them and their involvement that has helped get the "sport" to where it is now. I'd much rather a field full of garagistas and genuine racers rather than big corporations who are there purely to get us to buy more of their stuff.

I know it's pie in the sky thinking and it's far too late for that.

But Renault and Merc complaining about expense when they're largely responsible for engines that are so expensive even the likes of Porsche think it's too much to get involved, is a bit like them trying to lock the gate when the horse has already bolted.

I'd love to return to the days of someone being able to build their own chassis and buy a Cosworth DFV and Getrag gearbox and go racing, but unfortunately the manufacturers supply the engines and if there not there then there are no engines. Being cynical, the more manufacturers there are, the less overall power Ferrari have. If Porsche etc. thought they would be competitive, they'd be in F1 in a heartbeat. I highly doubt an F1 engine would be any more expensive to R&D than their WEC engine.
Engines have always been expensive though, especially when teams used to use one every time the car went on track. I read an old Autosport from 2003, and it said McLaren used 72 engines during the 2002 season!
I like the direction of the engines for 2021; keep the basic unit the same but just remove some of the complexity and give the drivers more power to control the boost.

The main cost, and issue, in F1 is the aero - if they made the aero simpler then the racing would be better and the engines would be less of an issue. The FIA are continuously closing loopholes in the regs, thinking that teams will stop spending. Except, all that happens is the teams divert resources to ever-diminishing returns. This is the FIA's fault, not the manufacturers. Also, because of the aero regs, you can have the most competitive engine but if you don't have the aero then you're knackered. Make the aero simpler, promote closer racing, and Porsche etc. will come running.

 

[///M]

I'd love to return to the days of someone being able to build their own chassis and buy a Cosworth DFV and Getrag gearbox and go racing, but unfortunately the manufacturers supply the engines and if there not there then there are no engines. Being cynical, the more manufacturers there are, the less overall power Ferrari have. If Porsche etc. thought they would be competitive, they'd be in F1 in a heartbeat. I highly doubt an F1 engine would be any more expensive to R&D than their WEC engine.
Engines have always been expensive though, especially when teams used to use one every time the car went on track. I read an old Autosport from 2003, and it said McLaren used 72 engines during the 2002 season!
I like the direction of the engines for 2021; keep the basic unit the same but just remove some of the complexity and give the drivers more power to control the boost.

The main cost, and issue, in F1 is the aero - if they made the aero simpler then the racing would be better and the engines would be less of an issue. The FIA are continuously closing loopholes in the regs, thinking that teams will stop spending. Except, all that happens is the teams divert resources to ever-diminishing returns. This is the FIA's fault, not the manufacturers. Also, because of the aero regs, you can have the most competitive engine but if you don't have the aero then you're knackered. Make the aero simpler, promote closer racing, and Porsche etc. will come running.

Manufacturers are 100% to blame mate. They're calling the shots and it's purely to suit them and their marketing budget. FIA have been a joke for years. Ever since Todt came on board they've been as weak as a Clio map sensor. So yeah, the problem started with Todt and Bernie but now it's out of their hands.

It's too late and it's completely out of control now. The sport I loved has been pretty much sold to the devil and it's suffering top to bottom. Money has killed it just how it has football.

Porsche pulled out of WEC because they were not getting enough ROI. They'd get even less in F1, although WEC budgets were starting to go towards F1 levels. But at least the ACO are trying to get a handle on it. Hopefully. And look at LMP2, it's fantastic right now.

Aero regs, 100% agree with that. HOW has it not been addressed? Or more to the point, WHY has it not been addressed? Surely it would be pretty easy to mandate specs to actually aid racing? Wonder why that's not happened already? The sad truth is that it's probably because too many big businesses are protecting their investment. Merc certainly wouldn't want their car to be easier to follow.

Bottom line for me, the manufacturers are there to get us to spend money with them. Not for racing. It's purely a mechanism for them.

Doom and gloom all round sadly. Give it 5 years and see where Formula E goes. Then it gets really scary.

 

[Sean197]

Manufacturers are 100% to blame mate. They're calling the shots and it's purely to suit them and their marketing budget. FIA have been a joke for years. Ever since Todt came on board they've been as weak as a Clio map sensor. So yeah, the problem started with Todt and Bernie but now it's out of their hands.

It's too late and it's completely out of control now. The sport I loved has been pretty much sold to the devil and it's suffering top to bottom. Money has killed it just how it has football.

Porsche pulled out of WEC because they were not getting enough ROI. They'd get even less in F1, although WEC budgets were starting to go towards F1 levels. But at least the ACO are trying to get a handle on it. Hopefully. And look at LMP2, it's fantastic right now.

The FIA are a joke, but I don't blame the manufacturers, they're only looking out for themselves. I don't like it as it amounts to politics, but from their perspective it's the right thing to do. It's the FIA who let them get away with it though. Incidentally, Bernie (or the new owners now) and the FIA have a mandate over major decisions, including engines, so the manufacturers are only voicing an opinion, their decisions aren't final. The cost of engines has also come down from £20million to around £10million per engine since 2014. There's no way that's going to come down further, especially not if new regs come in 2021. Hence why I think keeping the current V6 with minor tweaks is the way to go, but make the cars faster and more difficult to drive.
What F1 needs is for the rules to be simplified but still open to interpretation in order to promote imagination and ingenuity. Single-plane wings with more underbody downforce/ground effects, and as I said give the driver more control of the power output.
I'll still never watch Formula E though, just can't get excited about it!

 

[///M]

The FIA are a joke, but I don't blame the manufacturers, they're only looking out for themselves. I don't like it as it amounts to politics, but from their perspective it's the right thing to do. It's the FIA who let them get away with it though. Incidentally, Bernie (or the new owners now) and the FIA have a mandate over major decisions, including engines, so the manufacturers are only voicing an opinion, their decisions aren't final. The cost of engines has also come down from £20million to around £10million per engine since 2014. There's no way that's going to come down further, especially not if new regs come in 2021. Hence why I think keeping the current V6 with minor tweaks is the way to go, but make the cars faster and more difficult to drive.
What F1 needs is for the rules to be simplified but still open to interpretation in order to promote imagination and ingenuity. Single-plane wings with more underbody downforce/ground effects, and as I said give the driver more control of the power output.
I'll still never watch Formula E though, just can't get excited about it!

You said it yourself there Sean mate, "they're only looking out for themselves". Not the sport. Not Manor or the likes. Not the spectacle. Just pure marketing and I hate it with a burning passion. They shouldn't be able to dictate how the sport's technical regulations are written to suit their own agenda. But they do.

And honestly mate, it's them who are calling the shots. Not the FIA, not Liberty. FIA have used their veto once in how long? A long time. The FIA simply aren't fit for purpose. The smart folks at the big manufacturers have seen that and jumped in. They shouldn't have so much say but they're in a position to do so and they'll fight for it.

Ground effect. WHY has that not happened already? The fact that it hasn't, to me at least, is proof that there is something very wrong at the top and it's being held back by people with vested interests. Look at Indycar, they manage to do it. Really well.

They've regulated most of the best things out of the sport. Either due to the ineptitude of the FIA or the selfishness of the manufacturers. Too late now, we're down this path if we like it or not.

 

[Sean197]

Also, why is F1 fuel-limited? Who gives a shit if an F1 car uses 110kg or 200kg of fuel over a race distance?
Carbon footprint? GTF. As if flying the cars and loads of pit equipment all over the world doesn't give off enough emissions anyway.

 

[///M]

Also, why is F1 fuel-limited? Who gives a shit if an F1 car uses 110kg or 200kg of fuel over a race distance?
Carbon footprint? GTF. As if flying the cars and loads of pit equipment all over the world doesn't give off enough emissions anyway.

Another thing that the big businesses want. They need to be seen to have the environmental credentials they require to sell us more stuff.

It's the biggest fookin joke about F1. Sort the sodding calendar out so the events run in a sensible order. The carbon footprint left by bouncing around all over the planet makes the fuel saved in the races completely insignificant.

Let's just remember this is a "sport" where the guy at the top has genuine blood on his hands after the Bianchi incident that is all hidden away from view in order for the evil scumbag to campaign for road safety!!!

 

[Sean197]

How long before Ferrari issue a threat to quit?

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...-as-liberty-media-reveal-blueprint-for-future

I really wish they would just fuck off. Ferraris are for fat old business men trying desperately to bang their secretary, even though for most of them a lasting erection is a distant memory. They are no longer the 'poster' cars that young people aspire to, they've been overtaken by Koenigsegg and Pagani etc.

Go on, fucking leave F1, I dare you. No-one cares.

 

[///M]

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...-as-liberty-media-reveal-blueprint-for-future

I really wish they would just fuck off. Ferraris are for fat old business men trying desperately to bang their secretary, even though for most of them a lasting erection is a distant memory. They are no longer the 'poster' cars that young people aspire to, they've been overtaken by Koenigsegg and Pagani etc.

Go on, fucking leave F1, I dare you. No-one cares.

:excited: :excited:

BRILLIANT outburst mate. And bang on. It's only the super rare special edition cars that are great these days. They've bought out some awful road cars recently in my opinion. And I've driven a couple, sound great but not much else. And look how they banned Harris from driving their cars because he gave an honest opinion they didn't like.

As for F1, I would LOVE for them to pull out. Cock off, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Actually do.

Taken the piss out of the sport for years. Get away with murder. Have no end of help from the FIA. Have genuinely had a hand in the downfall of proper race teams. And hire utter twunt drivers. I wouldn't shed one single tear.

Best bit would be watching Sebby wet his pants!

A team of gobshites with a nutcase scumbag boss. How the mighty are fallen. Enzo must be turning in his grave.

 

[Sean197]

Ferrari have ZERO class. Marchionne even uses the phrase "Ferrari won't play". Using the analogy of a child taking his ball home because he doesn't get what he wants. How very apt.
How anyone can support them and find any of their wins legitimate is beyond me. They are a team who are helped by the governing body like no other in sport, and yet they still can't win the title. Their corruption in F1 is absolutely there for all to see, but is never addressed as Ferrari will take every step to keep them quiet with more political bullshit.
They are a disgrace, and Marchionne should be ashamed of himself. How about working harder to achieve the results which will provide the greater return for your investment, instead of whinging, you fat useless piece of shite.

 

[///M]

Ferrari have ZERO class. Marchionne even uses the phrase "Ferrari won't play". Using the analogy of a child taking his ball home because he doesn't get what he wants. How very apt.
How anyone can support them and find any of their wins legitimate is beyond me. They are a team who are helped by the governing body like no other in sport, and yet they still can't win the title. Their corruption in F1 is absolutely there for all to see, but is never addressed as Ferrari will take every step to keep them quiet with more political bullshit.
They are a disgrace, and Marchionne should be ashamed of himself. How about working harder to achieve the results which will provide the greater return for your investment, instead of whinging, you fat useless piece of shite.

Mate, another superb outburst. Couldn't agree more. Hate that fat slug. He fits perfectly with the rest of the team.

Incidentally, Adrian Newey has just bought out a book (How To Build A Car, it's fookin amazing!) and in it, he totally calls Ferrari out on the unsporting help they get from the FIA.

He also comes clean about them trying to poach him. Offered him double his salary at RB, said he could design road cars and basically do whatever he wanted. "Lord of Tuscany" is how he describes it!

Told them where to go.